Diesels, then Petrol ?

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davew
Posts: 779
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:15 pm

Diesels, then Petrol ?

Post by davew »

Hurrah ! Looks like we can keep our cars, well for about another 35 years, anyways....

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor ... -cars-2050

I 'particulately' expect diesels will be 'culled' first ??

But can anyone direct me to 'Cloud Cuckoo Land' in the meantime ?
davew
Posts: 779
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:15 pm

Re: Diesels, then Petrol ?

Post by davew »

Oh no.....

VW have deliberately falsified emissions tests in the US.

I am shocked - and They will be telling us next no doubt that ALL manufacturers 'tend' to overstate their specifications and performance figures......

I know, why not just get a new car off the assembly line - chosen completely at random - and drive that around on an actual/typical Urban road circuit etc and advertise and publish THOSE figures ?

All this 'data manipulation' was bound to happen once car emission figures were produced in 'ideal' conditions.... such as in 'The Lab' !
davew
Posts: 779
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:15 pm

Re: Diesels, then Petrol ?

Post by davew »

(From US Press): Surely we had realised MPG/Emissions/etc figures were patently being 'wildly exaggerated' - so why did this particular 'exposé' take so long ?:

" Campaign groups have long suspected that carmakers use the so-called defeat devices to achieve superior performances in laboratory tests to make their cars appear cleaner than they are in the real world. But their existence has so far been hard to prove.

A broader crackdown would add to the potential burden facing carmakers as they race to reduce carbon emissions and meet tough regulations, while facing political scrutiny over the effects of diesel pollution on air quality.

Questions will be raised in Europe, where the authorities are currently overhauling a testing regime viewed as widely outdated. A report from the UK Committee on Climate Change this month said that, on average, the on-the-road emissions in Europe were about 35 per cent higher than in laboratory tests advertised by manufacturers.

The EPA ordered VW to devise a remedy to remove the defeat devices and recall all the affected vehicles at no cost to the owners — a process that could take up to a year to complete. The agency stressed that the vehicles remained safe and legal to drive and resell in the meantime.

The company could theoretically also face fines per vehicle of up to $37,500 — a total of more than $18bn. "
- Overall ~500K vehicles !


Note: For anyone wondering in the US their Emissions tests generally involve plugging into the ECU via OBD sockets too...
davew
Posts: 779
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:15 pm

Re: Diesels, then Petrol ?

Post by davew »

For anyone actually reading this ... and interested in some of the technical details, then see:

http://jalopnik.com/your-guide-to-diese ... 1731857018

Interesting to see that urea is involved - surely proof that VW really were just taking the p*** out of the EPA ?!

Also Interesting to see that it all now has a name, too: 'DIESELGATE'...
davew
Posts: 779
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:15 pm

Re: Diesels, then Petrol ?

Post by davew »

Ah yes, I thought I had posted something up on here about all this.....

It now seems the UK plans to ban Petrol/Diesel cars by 2032 !! .. having already changed the 2050 'target' to 2040

Really ?? Are we run by complete idiots or is it just MICHAEL "we will save the world by banning plastic bags/straws and cotton buds* GOVE ?

I suppose it would help if any of these idiots had any idea about anything remotely technical...
davew
Posts: 779
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:15 pm

Re: Diesels, then Petrol ?

Post by davew »

Ah yes, I thought I had posted something up on here about all this.....

It now seems the UK plans to ban Petrol/Diesel cars by 2032 !! .. having already changed the 2050 'target' to 2040

Really ?? Are we run by complete idiots or is it just MICHAEL "we will save the world by banning plastic bags/straws and cotton buds* GOVE ?

I suppose it would help if any of these idiots had any idea about anything remotely technical...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 90661.html

https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2 ... ent-000660
mk2 cossie
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:37 pm

Re: Diesels, then Petrol ?

Post by mk2 cossie »

New car sales and purely petrol or diesel engined I thought. Not an outright ban on ALL petrol or diesel vehicles :roll:
davew
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:15 pm

Re: Diesels, then Petrol ?

Post by davew »

- Thanks for contributing Mk2cossie but it depends, for instance on whether you (read or) mean the first link info. I posted or the last one/s !

- First one states petrol/diesel ban in CITY CENTRES by 2050... ie You can own one of them but just not use it in certain places... ?
eg. In London the Mayoral plan is that 80% of all passenger journeys be by walking, bike or public transport by 2041

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/mts-walking-action-plan.pdf

But the main point it that is all basically academic/nonsense anyway, be it 2050/2042/2032.....or some other arbitrary date: It is simply not achievable nor realistic.

And it's 'nice' to see the Government have just reduced the grants for Electric Cars and removed them entirely for Hybrids... that should help their plans... ??
Apparently the take up has been huge as 4% of new cars now fall into these 'alternative' categories. Wonder when they start with the VED then, 10% ?

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/car ... emand.html

Now I don't know what world these 'decision maker's are living in but I suspect that most MPs could not even change a wheel without any assistance....
But I do know that none of them will be around in the next 15 years or so to explain why these 'save-the-planet' plans did not actually happen...
Or maybe they spout such things simply because they sound good ? /rant off
davew
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Re: Diesels, then Petrol ?

Post by davew »

(rant back on as) I forgot to mention one of the key issues 'driving' these 'decision makers' views of the (distant) future: Congestion...

'Helpfully' they are now telling us that apparently this could increase by 'anything from 23% to 108%' Yes, about a five-fold disparity in projections there....
(and yes, people actually get paid good money for providing these bad statistics)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 018.pdfait

But wait ! All the Electric Cars in use by then will reduce the pollution considerably (except that emitted by Power Stations of course): Don't hold your breath....
mk2 cossie
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:37 pm

Re: Diesels, then Petrol ?

Post by mk2 cossie »

The city centre thing i get. Nothing worse than the smog from the dirty buses and smelly taxi diesels.

But the disparity in the figures is purely based on estimations I would guess, and massaged again to sound good for the politicians :shock:

As for power stations, they are cleaner at producing the power for electric cars than the process for turning fossils in to dino juice of which ever persuasion :D
Getting that electricity down the line to ALL the electric vehicles on the road by then is a different matter :lol:
davew
Posts: 779
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:15 pm

Re: Diesels, then Petrol ?

Post by davew »

Yes you are right it is mainly the buses and taxis producing all the City pollution so I can see reductions helping there and so they should be cleaned up first....
but no alternative fuel is actually "Zero Emissions"of course, it's just somewhere else.... You probably did not follow that Mayoral link but this is it in brief:
https://www.airqualitynews.com/2017/06/ ... ndon-2050/

From the current (!) state of the substation/distribution infrastructure I doubt you could have more than about 10% of the cars on a given road with fast(er) charge facilities ... but that's OK because we would have to pay for the necessary upgrades

However in the meantime Governments are being lobbied by the Petrol Companies towards Hydrogen of course
davew
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:15 pm

Re: Diesels, then Petrol ?

Post by davew »

Ooops.... even if you wanted to look at the DfT link above it had some 'extra' bits to prevent it, now corrected ! :-

ttps://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/740399/road-traffic-forecasts-2018.pdf

Yes, for Congestion 'Forecasts' read 'Best Guesses' instead.... ! The 'ZEV' stuff starts in earnest from p27....
and elsewhere even they say that mooted New Technologies (eg 'Driverless Cars') may not help much....
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