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Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Problems with your Mk3 Granada

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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby davew » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:47 am

....or perhaps that spare loom is present because they changed it as it is faulty too; Worth swapping over, then run for a while and check for the '41' Code (?)

The problem with these 12v looms is that they touch hot parts of the engine and the insulation flakes off over time. The ECU sends an earth pulse to the injectors to operate them (ie. 'hard 12Volts'supply on the other side) so if that wire 'grounds' it will open the injector and over-fuel....

If you doubt the injectors it may be worth getting/making some 'NOID' lights too...
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby Kaptajnen » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:57 pm

If we assume that a periodic ground to one the injectors is the culprit, sending in lots of fuel, would the loss of power when the "thump" appears then be expected?
And if it gets too much fuel, would the ECU retard it so much that it would set a "HO2 no switching for 20 seconds" code?

The NOID sounds like an idea, but as it is periodic i would then rely on being able to "provoke" the shorting, or else it would just show it is working; I will make a thorugh inspection of the injector loom, for starters :)

I appreaciate the effort!

Thanks.
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby davew » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:11 pm

Well if you 'solid earth' the injector ECU feed and thus badly over-fuel it won't ignite, then it might misfire as/if it clears...... (?)

Yes, check the loom for possible roblems first. A noid would simply show a 'solid earth' feed as opposed to switched/pulsed !
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby Kaptajnen » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:20 am

Hi All

I haven't got the time yet to start the physical search for faults, but I did spend some money in the G&S shop getting the engine management fault finder.
Funny enough, code 41 is Rich running, and not Lean!?! according to the book.
This complies pretty well with the low milage and the theory with the open injector; although the spark plugs still would indicate lean running, as far as I know. :?:
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby davew » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:09 am

Yes could be the 'stuck injector issue as discussed'; But are you saying that you now suspect a spark plug is faulty ? (As if flooded again then the mixture won't combust)



https://www.troublecodes.net/ford/eec-iv/
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby Kaptajnen » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:16 pm

I don’t suspect A faulty spark plug, these were replaced last year.
But if the code says Rich running, i would suggest the Colour of the spark plug indicating lean running.
In the link you posted code 41 is lean, But in the engine management book i posted A picture from 41 is Rich
Which one is right then?
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby davew » Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:36 pm

Well spark plugs/HT leads etc can fail at any time of course.

The issue of 'leaness' or 'richness' of mixture can occur to differreing degrees and/or may be intermittent,
in other words it may not show up on your plugs.

The main point is it is generally fuel (eg. injectors) or electrical (eg. HT or other wiring)..
The exception here being suspect Hego wiring, as mentioned before.

Not sure just which Ford manual gave you that 41 Code as 'Rich' but it isn't !
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby Kaptajnen » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:55 pm

I bought the appropiate book from the granada scorpio shop :D
Regardless of this being A lean or Rich running issue, i have somewhat A intermittent mixture problem; if Its A wiring or mechanical error Time Will Tell.
I believe i should get a crack on the fault finding mission and See were it takes me.

I appreciate all the effort!!
Thanks A lot!
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby davew » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:04 pm

Ah, that book... invaluable but some of these have the odd 'typo' too !
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby Kaptajnen » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:12 pm

Hi All

So; the first attempt on cracking the fault came this far:
We did some preliminary tests, and found the exhaust manifold gasket on left bank to be done, the vacuum exited from here when the other exits was blocked, this shouldn't have any effect on a lean running issue.
The Hego is regulating as i should.

The thing we then found, was - and its about here I'm wetting myself; there were some melted wires at the PCM, which at first sight didn't look like a problem, but further investigation showed it had done a small rip on the blue/white wire to the hego; the thump i had experienced on a couple occasions appears to be A perfect ground to the PCM which would have nuked the PCM resulting in a collapse while running - i cant imagine what kind of signals the PCM would have used with a quite unauthorized ground to the system.

We are quite certain that the thumps, are solved; we need to check the wiring thoroughly and we need to check the source of the melted wires to be sure that it isn't acting up another place in the car.
The green/white wires, that have melted, are assembled in a small plug just about the PCM and have been disconnected, or perhaps never assembled as it still contains grease on the plug; but why have they then melted?
I bought the 92 wiring book from the shop, but it ends on page 31; our search for these wires are on page 33.1.1. does anybody know where i can find this page, or what schematics i can find it in?
So far we tracked it to be perhaps to the door locking system, but why is it going to the PCM? Also, it appears to be used only in cars with an auto box?

The car haven't been started up since it last blew up in my face, and when we checked the spark plugs they were as white as a new one, under our tests, when in ran in the closed loop management, it got at healthier looking brown colour.
after we found and isolated the wiring fault, we took it for a spin, were it drowe nicely and accelerated smooth to about 90mph :D
We checked the plugs, and they were white again, but no code in KAM; perhaps it runs as it should, or perhaps we need to do some further investigation.
Just a small update :D
Thanks.
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby davew » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:32 pm

Ah... you mean the Hego circuit was faulty as I had suggested/suspected last July ??

Grounding the Hego inputs would not be totally disastrous in fact.... these sensor inputs to the PCM are reasonably protected against such grounding - but generally NOT 12 volts...(eg. the heater supply).. which might fry them...)

Not sure just what you are tracking on your wiring there, explain this further and maybe someone can assist.... (?)
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby Kaptajnen » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:47 pm

Hi Dave
Your suggestion appears to have been quite in the right direction :D
Last year when measured upon the hego, nothing were to suspect; other than the heating element of the hego was dead, also, as of now when measured upon, no signs were given that there were any faults to the hego wiring i.e. it were switching on the multimeter.
But damaged wires were found, and in collaboration with the blue/white wire to the hego; whatever fault this could result in, i have no clue, if you dont suspects the shortening to be a problem?

The wire have been isolated, and took the car for a drive in about an hour, some small trips around town for some errands, and then took it out of town for a 16 mile spin.
It appeared to be driving fine, but again, it has been all the time when the thumps appears out of now where; no code logged in KAM, but the spark plug were very white!

The pins in question is Pin 30, brown/white, which are assembled in a plug with pin 18 black/red, and then splits in 2xbrown/white - these 2 brown/white are the ones that are quite fried; in the engine management books, these wires run to the immobilizer, which are found on page (diagram) 33.1.1, which i dont have; i dont have an immobilizer either.
In the 92 diagram book it just runs to the fuse box; the other day, i traced one of the brown/white wires to the door, so i would suspect the other brown/white wire would run to the other front door, but that's not what the diagram tells me?
So i am confused.. yet again.

Thanks again for the help, it is appreciated.
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby davew » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:56 am

The effect of shorting on the Hego wiring depnds on just what was shorted (and for how long...)

The most standard gauge of wiring is on these cars is usually god for 5-10 amps continuous; What you descrided sounds more like 15-20 amps.

Previously you mentioned sone 'gease' too: Is it possible you are just looking at a wire that was soldered plus some flux residue ? From your original posts it sounds like a previous owner modified something associated with the Hego wiring (and so it is hard to know just what he did - and why !)

On the wiring diagram photo you posted up I can't really discern the designations clearly either.... but if it is somehow associated with door alarm/immobiliser etc wiring then then it is not associated with the Hego of course...
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby Kaptajnen » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:04 pm

Hi Dave

Sorry for my late reply; I'm a bit short on time lately :shock:
See attached photos; one shows the 2 pin plug from the PCM, and the other the damage on the wires; i assume the plugs had been connected by mistake, otherwise i can't see how the wires could have taken damage.
The blue/white wire from the Hego were in the small "Y" section i have encircled, this made a very small opening to the copper, so it were shortening to the brown/white wire, which i haven't located were runs to yet.

Could you please explain what "gease" is :?: :D

I will try making a better wiring diagram!

Thanks
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby Kaptajnen » Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:49 pm

So; the season is well upon us, and the Scorpio were A fond receiver of A day of attention,
New oil and filter, new power steering oil, new discs and pads in the front, and A nip and tuck of the rear brakes.
The radiator has a very small leak, which is being solved with a new one, and one of the exhaust mounts were hanging by A thread!, I have bought new ones from powerflex :twisted:
When it was on a lift i found the "missing" HEGO; it does have one on each bank, but the left bank side is indeed hard to find when not on A lift!
When the exhaust mounts is exchanged, i will probably exchange the Hego as well, as I have a spare in stock ;)
We didn't find anything in the disc wear warning light problem, as nothing were visible defect, so perhaps a bad ground somewhere?

In regards to driving issues, the infamous thump have not shown its ugly face, i believe i already have been driving more this year than all of 2019; but it did show out of nowhere, i have my fingers crossed!

A very good season to all!
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby Kaptajnen » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:32 am

Hi All
The season is about to start soon and im planning the projects of the year.
I got at new radiator, but the small leak have stopped again, perhaps ill change it anyway; the new powerflex exahaust mount is to be fitted so i don't loose the exaust on the road and i got a new dual tone Cosworth horn as the old were probably gunged up, and didnt work when parked for the winter; it did though have a small whine during the winter start up.

In the bigger projects department, the tappets does make some noise, and my very skilled mechanic would like to check adjustement though they should be hydraulic.
What i can find, the heads needs to be removed to exchange the tappets on the 12v, can anybody confirm this?
If its somewhat straight forward im considering the exchange when we have it parted anyways.

In the upgrading department, i got a set of electric seat consoles, hopefully these will get mounted this spring.

Thanks!
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby davew » Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:06 pm

Hi Kaptajnen, looks like you are soon going to be busy, as many of us could be soon as Spring arrived so early !?

Yes, your 'lifters'/tappets are hydraulic, so self-adjusting...... It's good to know you have a skilled mechanic but not one who does not actually know if the heads should come off to swap out the lifters !? (Yes !)
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Re: Scorpio 1993 V6 12v efi Lean condition

Postby Kaptajnen » Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:43 am

I hopefully will!
I should get some tires for the freshly paintet 16" cossie rims aswell!

Maybe he knows, maybe not, we didn't discuss the details about it, im just doing my own research in these matters.
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